232: How to Embrace the Wise Woman Within & Turn It Into Action with Lori Pappas

Welcome to the Six Figure Personal Stylist Podcast, the ultimate no-BS business podcast for ambitious personal stylists ready to build a six-figure and beyond personal styling business.

You won't hear the typical snoozefest business advice that most personal stylists get told all of the time. Nope. Instead, I'll be sharing business-building strategies that will help you create a killer personal brand, a cult following of loyal personal styling clients, and make a ton of cash while creating lasting style transformations for your clients.

I'm Nicole Otchy, your host and a former personal stylist of 14 years who built a lucrative styling business in three major cities, but only after spending years trying to crack the six-figure styling business code without burning out. And now I'm here to tell you how to do exactly the same. Let's get into it.

I'm having a very specific conversation with a fair amount of my established clients recently. So I want to talk to you a little bit about what we are talking about behind the scenes. Because the more I hear it, the more I'm thinking, there's got to be some other people out there that are wondering the same thing: "Should I be doing anything differently in my business right now, given the uncertainty in the economy?"

It is a very fair question. It's a really smart question because even if your styling business is feeling really good, there has been a noticeable shift in the online space and how people are spending, what they're prioritizing, and how long it's taking them to make buying decisions.

So this episode is not here to ring alarm bells, it's really just about preparing yourself and being aware. Because things are happening very quickly in the news and in the world, and it's really loud out there. But whether or not we ever hit a full recession this year, next year, in the future, the reality is that economic unpredictability is part of the deal when you're building a long-term business.

What's important to know about right now is that, sure, the stock market's kind of doing a lot of stuff and it can be a little bit wild. But in terms of the day-to-day experience of most people in terms of job loss and stuff like that, we're not really in a recession. Recessions are tricky because you can only truly know you're in a recession if you look back at the data.

So I'm not saying we are in a recession as far as I'm recording this right now, May 29th, 2025. We are not, according to all economic indicators. But it's not really about whether we are or we are not. It's the way that people behave when they are overwhelmed, stressed out, or unsure, regardless of what's happening in their bank account.

I know a lot about this because I have lived this multiple times in my business. I started my styling business during the 2008 recession. I got it to six figures. Then I had to rebuild it after COVID wrecked it. I went from high six figures to around 60K in 2020.

The retainer clients that I had vanished, not because they didn't have money, but because they were now spending their money on second houses, they weren't getting dressed to go to work, or they were not going to the office anymore. So it radically changed my business. How I got it back to six figures after the kind of COVID downturn was not the way I built it to six figures.

So I have a lot of experience in this. What really pushed me to go all in on my framework and this business, because when I launched styling consultancy, I had my styling company still, was watching what happened inside the industry during COVID. So that's why I want to talk about this a little bit today.

Because if you became a stylist and launched your business during the pandemic, chances are that you may have been trained in programs that exploded during that time. Programs that were selling the dream of six figures while the industry itself was in free fall. Many personal stylists were claiming they could help build profitable businesses during historically unprecedented times in an industry when people were not going to be dressed anymore, which was a little odd to say the least.

On the other end, we also saw massive companies looking to churn out stylists and styling platforms as part of e-commerce expansion. I was being interviewed during COVID to hand over my intellectual property for a pretty sad sum of money by several big conglomerates. Some of them were in other countries to help them write their curriculum with, you know, no credit to me, basically just a lump sum of money.

I'm so glad that I didn't do it. I would never have been able to build this company. It was tempting because, you know, I was not signing the amount of clients that I was before, both because my, like I said, a lot of my established clients and new clients were not going to work, people were not getting dressed, supply chains were kind of crappy, people were in, you know, athleisure, people were dying, there were some things going on, understandable.

I think a lot of people don't talk about this. That's why a lot of stylists were teaching stylists during the pandemic because they were like, "Oh crap, how am I going to do this?" So while they did have a legitimate knowledge base, they most certainly did not know how to pivot during a pandemic, because we had never lived through one.

You saw this rise of stylists who had very little to no in-person experience, who were promised huge results from their couch, building a virtual styling business. While long-term pros were losing clients left and right, because the core market that most stylists were dependent on were drying up with work-from-home orders, and many of them have not fully come back to the way they were.

We're starting to see, as people get nervous about the economy, a lot more companies pulling people back into the office, which is why I'm going to say some of the things I'm going to say today. Because I've been on all sides of this experience, and it's true that many stylists are only now starting to see some of their corporate client, kind of styling clients, coming back.

The thing that happened during COVID is that people still had money. Like that's why you saw people buying summer houses and hiring interior designers, who did very well during COVID. So money was just being shifted. That's important for us to know because that happens in all situations that have economic uncertainty for certain groups. Other groups will do really well. That's why lots of millionaires are made during recessions.

But clients who wanted a high-touch in-home styling service didn't want virtual when the pandemic hit. Number one, we didn't know how long it would last, so I was like, "Yeah, I'll just wait till this is over." We didn't think it would go on this long. But markets kind of dried up.

People that didn't end up going the virtual route with a stylist would go back to in-person. I actually think that in-person styling is going to be wildly, wildly in demand as AI continues and as online platforms for styling continue. But that's another conversation.

So during COVID, you had more stylists being "made" than ever. That was happening during the most unstable time the industry has ever seen. And so to put this in perspective, what was going on during COVID, why so many stylists were not working even while so many stylists were being churned out and trained, you have to understand that this is what it was looking like in the economy at that time in the US.

So 22 million jobs in the United States were lost during 2020 because of COVID. 22 million. To put that in perspective of what that even means, because you're probably like, "Well, how many people are in the United States? How big of a deal could it be?" To put that in perspective, during the 2008 recession, so when I started my business, 8.7 million jobs were lost over two years. 8.7.

So over 20 million jobs were lost in spring of 2020—so that's a couple months—and only 8.7 million jobs were lost in two years during a known recession. That's wild.

Now put on top of that, that of that 22 million jobs that were lost, you also had the fact that supply chains were not turning out clothes the way they used to, and people weren't getting dressed to go anywhere.

So now you can understand how odd it is to look back and think, "Why were so many stylists being built and promised a future of multiple six figures from their couch styling virtually if people that had successful businesses were struggling?" This is not just me saying this about my business. I know tons of stylists who are this way.

If you are listening to this as an industry veteran and you're feeling a little bit of that trauma from COVID kick up as we talk about economic uncertainty, I want you to know that it makes perfect sense. The industry has been through a lot—a lot.

Many of us know that in big cities especially—I'm sure even more so in small towns and cities, a lot of retail never came back. So some of the frustrations of ordering things online for clients, or having clients order online, were all still trying to figure some of those things out.

Because lots of people come to stylists thinking, "Oh, you're going to solve all my shopping problems," when you're like, "Okay, I mean, I'm still ordering from the link to Betty. Like, you gotta buy both sizes. I'm not a magician, I'm a stylist."

So when it comes to some of the issues I see stylists struggling with in their virtual process, lots of people are still working that out, or they never worked it out, honestly. So I want you to know that it's okay and it's normal to feel a little nervous, but we're not where we were before.

Even if we do go into a recession, what happened during COVID was so bizarre and unprecedented in the sense that people weren't getting dressed to go to work. They were losing jobs and then we weren’t getting dressed. That won’t happen in a new recession.

If anything, if we do go into one, people will be called back into the office and it may reignite a lot of the base that stylists had. But again, you gotta know who you're talking to because it won’t help you if you don’t know that.

So I want to talk a little bit about data and why I am even talking about the possibility of a recession. First of all, if you’ve ever watched the news, I don’t know, in the last six months, it won’t surprise you. If you haven’t, well, we’ll get into why you should be in a minute.

But as of May 2025, Goldman Sachs has predicted that the chances of a U.S. recession by the end of 2025 will be 35%. J.P. Morgan says 40%. Since they’re the people that got us into the 2008 recession, maybe they know a thing or two about what they’re talking about, I don’t know.

But those numbers are not panic-worthy. Absolutely not. But it is enough, is what we're seeing, to see a shift in consumer spending behavior. That is what really stood out to me and why I wanted to do this episode.

So stick with me for a minute. We're going to get a little bit technical, but I promise I will give you the over-under on it in a sec.

So retail and food sales, which are key indicators of discretionary spending—which is what people are using when they are hiring stylists, discretionary spending—totaled $724.1 billion in April of 2025. That was up just 0.1% from March of 2025.

So that spending number was up, but that spending number being up 0.1% in March is significantly below the typical monthly increase that we see in discretionary spending, to the tune of $2 billion in a slowdown. So usually we see way more spending going up in discretionary spending sort of categories.

In this case, we're talking retail and food, which are the closest to what stylists are looking at in a month-over-month basis. So we're looking at: how much has an industry grown? How much is spending going up month to month?

When it's not up as much as it should be, people think, "Huh, why is that happening?" Again, the fact that it represents a $2 billion slowdown between March and April of this year is not like a spending freeze is happening in the economy. It's not like people are not saying anything about job loss, not telling us anything about that.

But it is saying that a $2 billion slowdown means that there's a pullback in the way that consumers are behaving. And for service providers like personal stylists who rely on discretionary spending, that is something we need to know.

That’s the kind of shift that could make you think, "Am I going crazy or has it been a little harder to sign clients this month?"

And so what do you do? If A) we do go into a full-blown recession—which I don't know, 35% to 40% isn't making me nervous—or regardless, and this is the bigger point of this episode if we go into a recession or not, people's behavior will change when they are confused or they are in fear.

So even if they have tons of money in the bank account, if the public perception is, "It is not a good time to spend. I need to be cautious to protect my family, to protect myself, because I don’t know what’s going to happen in the job market," you will see these behaviors.

So a lot of people are freaking out because of the stock market, and yes, that is an indicator that people need to look at. But stock market dips usually figure themselves out within 12 to 24 months.

The bigger issue is: is there job loss? Because most people that have their money in the stock market, they're not taking it out right now. Like, the whole idea of the stock market is it's a long-term plan.

So people who are taking it in and out of the stock market, like living off of that, they have other issues going on there, or they have a different type of strategy. So that's not really what we should be worrying about when we look at these things.

It's jobs. It's consumer behavior. Are people going out to eat? Are people going on luxury trips? There's also been a slowdown in the luxury travel industry, that’s another thing

I'm always looking at, what's going on in industries adjacent to personal styling. How’s furniture doing? How are interior designers doing? Because that's going to tell me a lot about the client base that most of you want.

I'm sharing that because when I am acting as a consultant for personal stylists, I have a responsibility to know what is going on generally. I am not an economic expert by any means, but I've looked at enough stuff now to have a sense, okay, you know, luxury traveling is down, that doesn’t mean people don’t have money to do it. They're just being a little bit more cautious.

So it's not that we're in—as of this moment, May 2025—we are not in a recession, but we are looking at changes in consumer behavior.

So whether we do or we don’t go into a recession, you need to be handling that in your marketing to speed up your sales. So everything we're going to talk about, we're going to talk about six strategies today that are going to help you during economic uncertainty, whether that be a full-blown recession or just people being a little cautious with their money because things are a little chaotic in the world, we're going to talk about what you need to be doing now to stay ahead of it.

The first thing—strategy one—is: clarity is cash. In uncertain times, confused businesses lose.

If your offers are messy or your messaging is vague, potential clients are going to freeze, not because they can’t afford you, but because they don’t see a clear link between your services and their problem.

Stylists who can position their services as essential solutions, not luxuries, are going to win in all markets. So this is not the moment to sell features as a transformation. Like, "Oh, you’re going to get a more organized closet." That is not the outcome that people are looking for.

That's not a problem they're looking to solve when they hire a stylist. You need to sell the relief of decision fatigue, the identity boost after a major life transition, the career edge that style gives them in a more competitive professional landscape, which we will be going into if there is an economic downturn.

Whatever transformation best fits with your niche and what they want when they come to you needs to be so obvious in your marketing that you are sick of hearing yourself say it. Also, this is just a little caveat. If you're one of those "I am too high-vibed to follow the news" people, or you are following people online giving business advice who claim to be above the news, this is your wake-up call.

I am not saying you should be doom-scrolling or obsessed with headlines, but if you help people through personal transitions, which literally is what stylists do— you need to understand the world that they are living in because your marketing is not going to land if you're tone deaf. COVID showed us the impact of businesses that learned this lesson the hard way, and it meant the end of a lot of small businesses that literally could have turned it around by reading the news and not being obsessed with not being low vibe.

We should be able to handle our own moods and read the news. Like, let's have a little emotional flexibility, folks. We're not that fragile. That's problematic.

So I just want to add in that that is important. You cannot be a business owner that survives things that get difficult and be like, "I'm all set, no news for me." You can read a website merge. We're all going to be able to get through this together. That is just bypassing your responsibility.

Strategy two. Rebooking is recession resilience. If you want to be able to weather any economic slowdown in the lifespan of your business, you're going to want to prioritize retention. During COVID, the only reason that I was able to stay above water and keep my business somewhat profitable was because I had systems in place to rebook clients.

If 30% to 40% of your revenue isn't from your returning clients in the best of times, you're going to really feel the pinch harder when you need cash injections. Retention is what allows your business to breathe, especially when new clients start taking longer to convert when consumer spending is down.

If your programs or systems aren't training you to serve your existing clients better and longer, not just to attract new ones, that is a really important priority in your business to start addressing now.

Strategy three. Sell strategy, not style. To be selling consistently in the current market, even when things are going really well, content just can't be outfit inspo or tips anymore. That's definitely something we have talked about on this podcast many times before.

This is really true when people are pulling back on spending because they will take those tips and tricks and they will think, "That's good enough for right now." Style as entertainment does not convert in uncertain economies. Strategic positioning is going to be the answer here.

So if you can't explain why your services move someone forward in their life and your styling packages are a necessity, not a nice-to-have, then businesses are going to struggle. Because influencer campaigns are already being slashed as a result of things like consumer spending being down.

We're looking and seeing that the cosmetic industry is starting to slow in terms of its growth, which was something called a lipstick index, something that a lot of people would look at because they would notice when economic uncertainty came, or spending was down, or recessions happened, the likelihood that women would go and treat themselves to small luxuries like a lipstick was up.

But we're not seeing that, even though we're seeing consumer spending slow down overall. So things like affiliate links are not converting like they used to, outside of really big influencer audiences.

So what is going to be the thing that makes a difference? Messaging that speaks directly to the emotional urgency and life context that your styling clients are dealing with.

If someone's spending less, that means that they're probably spending smarter, and that includes on their clothes, on the services they consume, all of that. So we really need our personal styling services to feel like the smartest option on the table.

Strategy four. Diversify but stay on brand. Now, one of the biggest things I see here is that when there is a slowdown or any uncertainty, either just in one person's business or at large in the economy, stylists will do things like start to push lower-priced offers, start to create memberships. Lots of memberships were abandoned during COVID. So many stylists did this.

The problem with that is that if you're not positioned well in the industry for the right type of client, then you are not going to sell those either because you will be newer to marketing that. You won't have had enough experience with what talking points actually convert to sales calls.

Passive products are a little bit trickier to get a read from your audience because there is no sales call, which is a critical part of refining your messaging. So it can just be really hard to sell lower-priced things. I see this with clients all the time.

So when you're thinking about diversifying your income, don't think that the move here is just to put up a really low-priced offer and think that's going to get you through. You want to be strategic about this because I've seen people do it, and it's even more demoralizing to not be able to sell a $97 thing than it is to not be able to sell a $3,500 thing.

So start by expanding the access that you have to new people in your core styling work. Don't start with the lower-priced offer in terms of like a passive offer.

That might mean you create a virtual VIP day for styling or an intensive for a higher-level client. If you're not already doing virtual work, like if you're mostly in person, this would be a good place to start. Like a bite-sized, smaller container for virtual work, because it's going to expand your geographic market and give you access to markets that maybe, you know, each city is very different and different economies have different relationships to the styling industry, I've noticed over the past two decades. And so you really want to be thinking about there are people that are very much like your ideal client where you are geographically in other places.

So if I talk to stylists who are in person and they're a little bit like, "I don't know if I really love virtual, I don't really want to do the whole process virtually," and that's fine, but if you have something in your back pocket that you can sell virtually for the people that are in need of this because they're the same psychographic, and when the economy is a little bit trickier, they're still in a situation where they're visible, they're employed, or they're looking to go to the next level, you're going to be able to access that market in different places.

So if you're already virtual and you also do in person or you're just virtual, I want you to then think about partnerships. This is a really easy way to inject more money into your income, and it's something you can be doing in person and online.

I think most stylists should have both. And you want to think about how you can have referral networks going with brands, boutiques, and other really high-touch, high-ticket service providers.

I would go with high-touch service providers first if I were you, just to maximize my energy online and off. This is going to be way more worth it for your bottom line than throwing out and having to split your audience's attention between a high-level and like really cheap passive offers.

After you've done those things, then I think it's totally fine to do a low-ticket product that's "passive." Again, the marketing of this tends to be not as passive as people assume, and you want to make sure that it warms up potential clients, not replaces the need for a one-to-one service.

Again, this is one of the things I'm hearing a lot of people saying, that they're buying offers about making online courses or passive stuff, and then they're finding out that it doesn't even make sense within the ecosystem. So when they hear me talking about this, they're like, "Wait a sec, what?"

So you really want to qualify everything in your business and what you're selling and know: Does it upsell people? Does it downsell people? Is it the same audience? Is it a different audience? Is the only difference that this group of people is mostly the same as my high-ticket client, but they are okay with doing it themselves?

Like, you need to know those things. In order to know those things, you have to be able to talk to your audience.

So once you do that and you have a sense of what a smaller, ultra-specific, low-ticket offer would be, something along the lines of like, to give you an example of what I mean by ultra-specific, "How to build a postpartum work wardrobe in under $200," or something that's not a generic closet clean-out guide.

Like, if you have a checklist or something like that, that's not going to do it. Or if you have a lot of videos that take people through all of your process, at some point that probably needs to be more of a mid-tier offer right now, and have to have some kind of a live engagement with a stylist in order to really do well.

Because we're finding that there is just a bigger split when the economy gets a little bit more slowed down between people that want really high-end, high-touch, stylists tend to forget those people actually still exist, and then people that are more DIY.

And so you just want to make sure that you're not completely splitting your audience or dividing your own marketing energy in the place that's not going to pay your bills.

So you just want to make sure, if a low-ticket product or offer is something you're going to put on the table and focus on, that A, you're sure that you're not just not talking to the people that are buying right now in your high-ticket, and that that offer warms up a potential client to hire you somewhere in your one-to-one offer system later.

Strategy number five is one that I think is a little bit nuanced but important, specific to if there is a significant economic slowdown. That is, you really want to think more about your marketing being about beliefs versus converting existing pain. Because in emotionally uncertain times, people are already very activated, and so they want to be reminded of what's possible if they are in a good place, not trying to fix something that is deeply broken when they're already stressed out. It's just not going to call in the right client.

So speaking to the version of your ideal client who's already in progress of up-leveling and updating themselves, and who's hungry for more and doesn't see downturns as adversity but sees them as an opportunity to step into a new opportunity, that's who you really want to be talking about. That's really about having an ideal client who's growth-focused in every area of their life. Not one who's stuck in “Why doesn't my wardrobe look good now?” and how they looked better 10 years ago, and all of that.

I think in general that's a good piece of advice, but it's really something to think about when the world gets loud and noisy. And we saw a lot of this in COVID. There was just a lot of social unrest, there was a lot going on economically. There were still people that were going to work all the time, that were leading, that were spending money and living their life as best they could because they're the kind of people that are going to make the best out of whatever happens. And in some cases, lots of people got really big opportunities in their life.

I live in New York because my husband got a huge professional opportunity that up-leveled our life a lot. So these things happen all the time. And you have to remember, that's why you're not your ideal client. Because if we are in a lack mentality, we will market the way that we think, and that's not how the whole world works. Whether you're in the best, high-vibe mood, or you're in the lowest mood, there's always somebody that's nine paces ahead, and they're good for business if we're being honest with each other.

So you really want to make sure that you're not calling in people that want to be fixed or saved or using this to kind of build the foundations of their confidence. They're already pretty confident, and they want to be supported in being their next-level self. So you really want to work on making your messaging reflect that. In general, that's a good piece of advice, but it's really true when people are very emotionally activated and heightened.

Because it can just make the client experience really hard. People don't get back to you, especially if you're virtual. People are very scattered. There's a lot of back and forth that is unnecessary when people are not in a good headspace. So just a little piece of advice there.

Then my last strategy for economic uncertainty—or just to sort of get ahead of economic uncertainty—is: consistent visibility is sales insurance. So the worst thing you can do when the world gets noisy and complicated is to go completely quiet.

I see this a lot when there's a lot going on. I witnessed this a ton during COVID. I actually did turn up the volume of my visibility during that time because I had to. I felt as though, “Well, there's gotta be people that are doing well in these circumstances.” And in fact, there were.

Visibility doesn't necessarily mean shouting or being really performative or speaking out on every news story during periods like this. It means staying grounded, consistent, and intentional. That's much easier to do if you're already doing that when we go into difficulty. So obviously, it's a good piece of advice for any time, but it's going to be hard to do that if you also are worried and upset or nervous about things.

So that's why I just feel as though that habit—and getting into that habit—and thinking of your visibility and your marketing as insurance is really important. Because every piece of content you put out should be doing one of three things when things get hard and consumer spending slows down.

In general, again, you should be doing these. But these are the three that will always get you the best results: show your authority, build trust with the right people—again, this is the positioning stuff I've been talking about—and third, clarify your offer and why it is not a luxury but a necessity in the given climate that we're in.

So yes, speak to what's happening to the best of your ability in the world. But mostly, you want to be able to say, if your clients are worried about job loss or the cost of living, you need to be able to address that as if it's a sales objection in your content. And that's what I mean when I say show your authority.

That's why we can't be tapping out because we want to be high-vibe. You don't have to be an economist, but you do have to be able to reflect back to people the real transformation and how it's going to look in their life, given the circumstances that they are in.

So stylists who thrive through economic shifts are not hiding. They're not hiding before the shift, and they're not hiding after. And they don't pivot to affiliate links or low-priced offers out of fear. They double down on what has worked. Because that's likely going to work. It's tried, it's true, they know what messaging and what offer is their most popular, and they double down on that.

And then they think about, “Okay, what could support this?” Not, “What do I do to scramble for money?” Because that energy is not going to call in the right people. That's why we have a graveyard of memberships from COVID that stylists had.

So double down on relevance to your market. Double down on clarity. Double down in your confidence in your ability to get them what they need during this particular period of time that feels maybe very uncertain.

When the market shakes, most people freeze. That's how people generally behave. So if you are acting as a leader, you're not only going to activate people that are ready to buy right now, but you're going to activate the audiences of folks who, stylists who, can't hack it quite honestly.

Because of how big the industry got during COVID, to my earlier point, I think there are a lot of people that won't be prepared, unfortunately, for these types of things. Because they were not trained in how to convert an audience. They were given a really general marketing plan or advice that didn't really have any grounding in sales psychology.

Because one of the biggest things people tell me after doing Income Accelerator or my one-to-one is that they had done other programs, but they hadn't gotten that level of specificity before in what to say. Which means, that tells me, enough people will be able to have the results that would carry their business forward through severe economic uncertainty.

So that means that there are markets that will free up for certain stylists, unfortunately. But this is why people do really well during recessions because not everybody can hack it.

So I'm talking to the people that are going to be willing to step up during these times. Because again, if you have a business long enough, like I have, you will go through this multiple times. Even again, if we're not in an actual recession, just people are nervous and so spending slows.

So if these are things that you have found useful, head over to Instagram, share with me what you're going to be taking away from this episode.

This is really a good time, when things are relatively stable, to start thinking about: “What of these things can you put into your business so that you are ready in the future if anything happens?” I hope this episode was useful, and I will talk to you next time.

Thank you so much for hanging out with me. It turns out that social proof is actually pretty important. So if you could help me out, I'd so appreciate it. If you just had a quick free moment and could leave me a rating or review on the podcast app, that would be killer. And even better, if you wanted to share this episode on Instagram and tag me, that would totally make my day and it would bring so much more awareness to the podcast and would help other stylists just like you who are looking to build lucrative styling business because the better each of us does, the better all of us do. Thanks for hanging out with me and I'll chat with you next time.