191: How to Successfully Navigate the Path From College to Career with Brett Liebross

Andrea Liebross: Welcome to the She Thinks Big! Podcast. Get ready to level up your thinking and expand your horizons. I’m your host, Andrea Liebross, your guide on this journey of big ideas and bold moves. I am the best-selling author of She Thinks Big: The Entrepreneurial Woman's Guide to Moving Past the Messy Middle and Into the Extraordinary.

I support women like you with the insights and mindset you need to think bigger and the strategies and systems you need to turn that thinking into action and make it all a reality. Are you ready to stop thinking small and start thinking big? Let’s dive in.

Hello, my friends, and welcome back to the She Thinks Big! Podcast. I've only said that a couple of times now, so it still sounds pretty new. Today I actually also have a new guest with us today, someone who I've never really interviewed before, aside from maybe interrogating across the kitchen table, I guess we could call that.

I decided that it was a good time to invite my son, Brett, to the podcast. We're recording this about a month almost to the day after he graduated from college and about a week before he starts his job in the real world.

We're recording this in the middle of June. I wanted to ask him a few questions about how he thinks and what he thinks about and what he thinks we all should be thinking about from the vantage point of an almost, about to become in a week or two, 23-year-old. Brett, welcome.

Brett Liebross: Thanks for having me.

Andrea Liebross: Do you want to introduce yourself? I mean, I could give you an introduction, but we can pretend, Brett, that this is an interview for a job. What would you say? Give us your interview, it's real.

Brett Liebross: I don't know if I'll do it that way, but my name is Brett Liebross. I reside in the same house as Andrea here in Zionsville, Indiana, just outside of Indianapolis. I just graduated from Indiana University in Bloomington from the Kelley School of Business there, majoring in finance and business analytics. Then as she mentioned, in a week or two, I'm going to be moving and then starting a job as an investment banking analyst for a company called Harris Williams in Boston.

Andrea Liebross: Very exciting. Some people listening might say, "Do you know what you're getting into? Investment banking gets a bad rap." Well, I don't have a bad rap, but it has a rap, right?

Brett Liebross: It does have a rap. I'd say the traditional stereotype associated with it is, at least probably from people from your generation, is the movie Wall Street with Michael Douglas doing cocaine off the desks and wheeling and dealing with shady inside information.

But in reality, it's a much more regulated and mundane job. The hours are definitely still there as I learned last summer, I interned with them from June to August 2023. But it's definitely way more of a collegial environment.

People are really only interested in two things, themselves and how they could support the firm and advance themselves again up through the ranks or into another career.

Andrea Liebross: Okay, so he does know what he's getting into for all of you wondering. I think he had a really good dose of what it might be like last summer and he's going back to the same place and he is familiar with the city since I grew up there. A lot of my family is there, so he's been there many times. But let's get to the meat of it. What do you think were the keys to finding a job?

Brett Liebross: I'd say it was a cumulative process, starting my freshman year, at least at Indiana in the business school, I call it a microcosm of the real world in the sense that networking and who you know matters just as much, if not more, to securing a job or an internship than your academics or your extracurricular involvements.

It was a good dose of reality entering freshman year that joining a business fraternity, which I did, or getting into workshops, which are at IU, just pre-professional programs that act as feeders to internships and then jobs were about networking. I think that was the lesson that I learned the first two years of college, which translated into a job post-grad.

Andrea Liebross: Actually a great internship even after sophomore year, right?

Brett Liebross: Yeah. That definitely helped me a little. I did an internship at consulting in Chicago, which was informative at the very least. I didn't necessarily love what I was doing there, but it was my first exposure to the high finance world, and kind of reassured me that I was making the right step of doing investment banking full-time.

Andrea Liebross: Let's talk about networking. I know that Dad and I were pretty, I don't know if "surprise" was the right word, but incredulous at the amount of networking and coffee chats, as you call them, that occurred starting freshman year. It just seemed like they were never-ending, like you're always talking to someone.

I remember even over Thanksgiving freshman year, you locking yourself in a room—I think that was freshman year, was it sophomore year?

Brett Liebross: Sophomore year.

Andrea Liebross: I don't know, sophomore year—just the day before Thanksgiving, talking to more and more and more people. If someone's afraid of networking or feels like it's a drag? I mean what would you say?

Brett Liebross: I would say that even college students love nothing more than to talk about themselves, so at the very least, if you have the chance to speak to someone on the phone, I bet they'll do 75% of the talking, especially if you ask pointed or broad questions, and just creating a touch point to build upon definitely was important for me in those freshman-sophomore years.

Quite honestly, the sophomore year networking was the most important. The recruiting cycle for jobs and consulting or banking these days is you recruit for internships, your sophomore spring for your junior summer, so over a year in advance, and then it's essentially recruiting for a job after your senior year as well, considering most of these internships convert to full-time roles.

I guess another point on networking is that a lot of people have had success, not necessarily me, but others, in reaching out via LinkedIn. Oftentimes, that's a better way to connect with someone than cold emailing because at least in finance roles, and I'm sure in many of your listeners, small businesses, and so forth, people's inboxes are flooded and you'll never see or catch an email from a random address, they'll likely go to your junk or some people even set rules in their inbox to not view emails from EDU addresses even because they don't want to deal with the outreach from prospective college students.

So, a LinkedIn message is often a better way and it's a little more informal to reach out to someone for potential roles.

Andrea Liebross: Okay, as you know I'm reading this book—this is the book I want you to read, Brett—it's called The Defining Decade. It's about people in their 20s and what they need to do. There's a whole part in it that says the people you know are way more important than, like you said, any grade or extracurricular.

It made the point that in general, people want to help you, like whoever they are. People who are more likely to help you too are not your cousin, but it's like your cousin's friend. It's almost even this second level of person who is way more willing to help you. Would you agree with that?

Brett Liebross: Yeah, I would agree. I'd say that people treat networking, at least in my world, as a future business opportunity and decision. They're looking to network with you, maybe not in a transactional way, at least right now. As you mentioned, I had plenty of coffee chats with people and 95% of those conversations didn't translate into interviews or offers.

But I know, and I've seen it in past graduating classes that even five years down the line, those one-off convos from a person in undergrad often lead to deals or deal flow or roles at other institutions, maybe you got laid off or want to change a venue or firm, size for example, those one-off conversations definitely paid dividends down the road.

Andrea Liebross: Yes. I think even for us as female business owners, it's all about conversations. Connect, have a conversation, and that does usually lead to some sort of conversion, we'll call it, in some way, potentially, maybe eventually. Even though you could think of it as time-consuming, I feel like it gets you farther and faster when you have a conversation, like you were saying, versus sending a random email.

Brett Liebross: Yeah, I agree.

Andrea Liebross: Yeah. Okay. Let's just kind of switch a little bit, what motivates you? You could be honest.

Brett Liebross: I mean, money is the obvious one. I wouldn't say money per se. I think just financial stability and I'll caveat this with or go down a little rabbit hole in the sense that a lot of students, a lot of my friends even in college, were not financially literate whatsoever.

A lot of their parents still controlled their bank accounts even through senior year and they had to get essentially an allowance or drawdown on their own money via their parents.

Given that, I think being financially stable and literate is a motivating factor. Obviously, I'm in the finance industry, so that goes without saying that I'll be at least somewhat competent at that stuff.

But oftentimes, financial literacy in the workforce doesn't translate into personal financial literacy. I'd say that a combination of monetary gain and literacy is one. Second, I think that one of my motivating factors is to be in a place where I am constantly learning.

I'm a pretty fidgety person, as you know, so obviously being somewhere where I never have the same day twice, each day doesn't feel like Groundhog Day, and I'm always doing something to advance myself either professionally or personally, is important.

Andrea Liebross: Yeah. It's been interesting to see you the past month, what you've been working on, studying, and learning, and just have your head down and engage in this month that you've been home. I think that is very interesting.

Tell me what keeps you going even when you're feeling tired or burnt out because I think in investment banking especially, you do sometimes feel tired. I think that's a fair statement. I know at school sometimes you feel really tired. What keeps you going? Is it the same things?

Brett Liebross: I'd say it's slightly different. What keeps me going, or at least, or maybe to reframe your question, what mindset do I get into to keep going, is I treat those days like I'm in boot camp. It's more of a trudge forward and forgetting that those days even existed than to sulk in the moment itself and be in the tiredness.

I'm also an inherently lazy person. So knowing that the work I put in now will pay dividends down the road because I likely won't do it is another thing.

Andrea Liebross: Lazy? Do you really think you're a lazy person?

Brett Liebross: I would say so, in some scenarios.

Andrea Liebross: Okay. I’m like, “Jeesh.” I would say that's true in some scenarios. Yeah, we could come up with a couple of scenarios. All right, what do you love doing? What gets you excited? I can name a couple of things, but what do you think, what gets you excited?

Brett Liebross: What do I like doing? I like working out and running, going for long runs. I got into that this past year with all my fellow seniors. We did a half marathon in Bloomington, which was fun.

Andrea Liebross: And ended up in some very big blisters, by the way.

Brett Liebross: It did. It was not fun. The aftermath wasn't fun. I'd say spending time with friends, not at a party going out sense. I think I value actual conversation, “adult conversations” more than I do, just going to the bars and having the same conversations with 30 people that I see that I know.

Andrea Liebross: But you did do that.

Brett Liebross: Yeah, I did do that. I did it out of semi-necessity because that's where everybody else is so I go along. I love sports in all their shapes and sizes. I think that's another thing that I enjoyed doing and watching, and sometimes playing.

Andrea Liebross: That's what I would say. I would have said those actual three things because we had this conversation the other night where I said, “Do you want to have some people over before you leave?” and you're like, “I'd rather just have people over one at a time or see people one at a time.” That goes along with that.

All right, so tell me, these are more philosophical questions about college, who or what do you think makes someone successful? What makes you successful? Like in general, in life or maybe in college, but in life, what do you think is going to make someone successful? Tell me about the success road.

Brett Liebross: It's hard to say, at least in a college sense, because a lot of people peak, and you hear the phrase “peaked in high school” or “peaked in college,” so seeing them now and what they'll be in 10 years, who knows if they've really achieved success yet. I'd say in the broader sense, I think at least the successful people I've been around have sacrificed a lot in terms of personal relationships to get to where they want in their careers.

However, on the flip side, I think another facet of success is being able to strike a balance between those personal relationships and getting to where you want to be in your career because some of those people who sacrifice everything for their career look weathered, burnt out, unhappy with themselves and really don't consider themselves a success because they don't have that other side of life.

Andrea Liebross: Gotcha.

Brett Liebross: Yeah, I think there are two ways to look at it.

Andrea Liebross: Okay. What do you think all college kids need to know before they get to college?

Brett Liebross: I would say treat your freshman year as the most important year of your college experience, not to say that the other three aren't important for other various reasons, but I would say that my freshman year, albeit it was during COVID and the majority of my school was online and I didn't probably make as many connections as I would have if it wasn't in person and we were kind of let free from the dorms, it was a very formative experience that set me up for the rest of college and my career.

I joined a business fraternity, which is probably the most important decision of my last four years, getting in because we have to recruit for them with interviews and whatnot, getting in that first try and having a solid group of like-minded, reasonable, non-crazy friends. Some got crazy, but that's for discussion for another day.

Having that core group that I kept throughout college was really important. We all fed off of each other's successes and learned from each other along the way. I think just treating your academics and your social group formation, whether it be a business fraternity, a regular fraternity, or just finding a solid group of friends in your dorm, that first year is the most important thing.

Andrea Liebross: Okay, I can see that. What do you think parents need to know?

Brett Liebross: That it is not healthy to talk to your child more than three times a week, I would say. I had some friends who, I mean, granted they were mainly girls, but talked to their moms or dads every single day of the week, just as an outlet to rant. That's their job sometimes. But I think developing a level of emotional stability on your own is important.

Then second, which goes along with the parent-child connection is to let your child forge their own path. I think you guys did a good job of that for me. Granted, it could have been some naivety since I was the first one going through college so you didn't know what to expect.

Andrea Liebross: Well, it was also COVID too.

Brett Liebross: Yeah. But for those who have preconceived notions of what their child's college experience is going to look like basing it off of their own experience, I would say throw that at the window and let them be who they are because that's going to ultimately make them most happy and if you do need to step in and provide some guidance if they really do need it, that's important too. But just a general air of freedom.

Andrea Liebross: Gotcha. Okay, that's cool. I don't think we talked to you more than three times a week, did we?

Brett Liebross: No.

Andrea Liebross: I don't think so. All right. Even though we were only an hour and 20 minutes away, we really didn't see you tons either. We all survived, it was all good. Before we wrap up, I do have to ask you—and you probably don't like this question—but what do you think “thinking big” is? Have you seen me or anyone else demonstrate that? What is thinking big?

Brett Liebross: Yeah, I would say I don't do a good job of it, first of all, because I think my prospective career path and what I foresee doing in the next three to eight years is pretty cookie-cutter, and a lot of people have done it before me, not to say that I don't want to do it.

But I think being ambitious in the sense of thinking outside the norms of what you are supposed to do is thinking big to me. I have a friend as an example, you've met him once before, but he did everything I did in college essentially, was part of all the same organizations that could have gone into my field just as easily, but he bet on himself, starting I think in mainly as freshman year and in college and has developed a multi-million dollar venture capital portfolio on his own with none of his parents backing, just pure grit and self-belief. That's what he's doing full-time. He's moving to California to be closer to his, I think he's only 22, his portfolio companies, which is pretty crazy to say for a person that age.

He strayed from the norm and definitely got a lot of weird looks from us initially, but once we saw how passionate he was and how successful he was at his chosen entrepreneurial path, we all respected him even more for it. I think he was pretty definitional in thinking big.

Andrea Liebross: I would 100% agree with you because I met him and from what I learned, he's definitely thinking in a different echelon than most.

Brett Liebross: Yes, but he still acts our age or even younger, which is hilarious.

Andrea Liebross: That's true, too. He did act probably even younger.

Brett Liebross: Yeah. Probably because he's his own boss. He doesn't need to suck up to anybody. He just does what he wants.

Andrea Liebross: That's truly true. Okay. We're going to wrap this up. I usually ask my guests what are three things in your car right now? Actually in my car right now, because that's the car you've been driving around for the last year, and I have been driving a rental car—we'll save that for a different episode—but what are three things in your car right now?

Brett Liebross: My water bottle, my workout shoes, and an empty hamper that was filled with stuff donated to Goodwill.

Andrea Liebross: Okay, and last question, when you have your own refrigerator—because this is about refrigerators—when you have your own refrigerator, what three things will be in your refrigerator at all times?

Brett Liebross: Definitely LaCroix.

Andrea Liebross: Celsius.

Brett Liebross: Celsius, that's number two, correct, and I don't really know.

Andrea Liebross: I think there'll be some ice cream in the freezer.

Brett Liebross: Maybe, I don't know.

Andrea Liebross: Halo Top. All right, thank you so much for being here. It's been a pleasure. See ya.

Brett Liebross: It’s been a pleasure as well.

Andrea Liebross: Thanks for tuning into the She Thinks Big! Podcast. If you're ready to learn the secret to unleashing your full potential, don't forget to grab a copy of my book, She Thinks Big: The Entrepreneurial Woman's Guide to Moving Past the Messy Middle and Into the Extraordinary. It's available on Amazon and at your favorite bookstore.

And while you're there, grab a copy for a friend. Inside, you'll both find actionable strategies and empowering insights to help you navigate the complexities of entrepreneurship and life, and step confidently into your extraordinary future.

If you found value in today's episode, please consider leaving us a review on your favorite podcast platform. And if you're ready to take this learning a step further and apply it to your own business and life, head to andreaslinks.com and click the button to schedule a discovery call. Until next time, keep thinking big.