166: What You Must Know Before You Invest in Marketing Support with Stacey Harris

Andrea Liebross: Welcome to the Time to Level Up Podcast. I'm your host, Andrea Liebross. Each week, I focus on the systems, strategy, and big thinking you need to CEO your business and life to the next level. Are you ready? Let's go.

Hey, listeners. Welcome back to the Time to Level Up Podcast. Today, I'm going to giggle as I'm talking about this, but today on the podcast--

Stacey Harris: How weird is it to do the intro with your podcast producer watching you?

Andrea Liebross: This is why I'm giggling. Today on the podcast is my podcast producer, Stacey Harris of Uncommonly More. This is funny because sometimes I do the intro separate than the podcast and she sometimes will send me messages like, “Hey, we have the whole recording but you never did the intro,” that's what happened yesterday.

Now, I said to her since she's right here, we're just going to do the intro all together. So instead of me telling everybody who you are, Stacey, you tell everybody who you are and then we'll talk about what we're going to talk about.

Stacey Harris: I love it. I'm Stacey Harris. I am the producer of this and many other podcasts including my own, The More Profitable Podcast. I spend all day every day thinking about, listening to, and watching because some are video like this one, podcasts. What we really focus on is business owners who are using their podcasts to generate, educate, and convert right-fit clients.

These aren't podcasts that are built to attract listeners and sell sponsorships, they're built to attract, nurture, and convert a customer generally into service or info-based think coaches, consultants, service providers businesses. We talk about building sales assets. We talk about building production cycles that work for us. We talk about building episodes that when you need to, you can pull and repurpose from. That's how I spend my time.

I've been doing this for 12 years. I've had my podcast for 11 years. When I started podcasting, there were three women, that's an exaggeration, but it was a very different space.

Andrea Liebross: Yes, yeah. I'm trying to think when did I start listening to podcasts? Probably, oh, let's think about this, I would say maybe 2014. Well, that's kind of ish when you started.

Stacey Harris: My podcast launched in November of 2013, so you were right there.

Andrea Liebross: Ii was. And I remember teaching people how to listen to a podcast way back in the day because I would say, “I heard this,” and then they didn't know what I was talking about.

Stacey Harris: Oh, yeah, a big part of my marketing, when I launched the podcast, was not like it is now where you just tell people you have a podcast and you send them a link, it was literally a video I released on how to find it. They were up on my website but how do you listen to these while you're walking your dog? Which is we know the point.

I had a whole video on my podcast's landing page at the top of it. It was not like trying to talk you into listening or telling you what was great about the show, all the above-the-fold things we would think of now, it was literally a YouTube video on how to get a podcast to pull up on your phone.

Andrea Liebross: Some people still need that. Maybe we should be sending them that. But anyway, hopefully not. Stacey and I have been working together since I think like Episode 69, something around there, 68.

Stacey Harris: I think this spring will be two years.

Andrea Liebross: Okay, so two years. When I first started, I had a different producer who was awesome and she served her purpose at that point. Shout out to Stephanie, great job. But I was ready to grow the podcast and really turn it into a marketing tool. That is how I found Stacey because that is the thing that she is an expert at among other things. That's why we started working together.

As we were thinking about what are the podcasts that I want to create, produce, and put out there in the first quarter of 2024 in our quarterly call, which we do every quarter, usually the month before the quarter starts as we plan out the next 12 weeks, this topic of people hiring others to help them with their marketing, whatever that might be, whether it's helping them with blog writing, a podcast, SEO, redoing their website, whatever marketing tools they're thinking about, hiring those experts before they're ready, before they know what they're actually marketing is a problem.

I see this in my coaching business, a lot of people say to me, “Well, how am I going to do that? I could hire someone to help me do that,” and like, “You totally could hire someone to help you do that but you need to know what you're talking about before you hire them.”

The point of this podcast here is deciding what you want to focus on, what is important to you, who your audience is, what your message is, how important those things are to know before you, for example, set up a consult call with Stacey Harris.

Stacey Harris: Absolutely. You mentioned that we come together quarterly to plan your next 12 weeks of content, and you're absolutely right, it is the final month of the quarter to plan the next quarter. I do it with all of our clients. It's my favorite four months of the year and we talk strategy.

You know this but let's tell them, the first questions out of my mouth are always like, “What are we selling this quarter? Who are we selling it to? Do we have any events going on? What's our focus?”

If you can't answer those questions, it doesn't matter how good the marketing expert is that you've hired, website, SEO, I see this a lot, a lot in paid ads, there's a big push of like, “If I just pay for Facebook ads, then I'll get the leads I need,” it's like, “Cool, cool, cool, but the problem is not actually a leads problem, there's plenty of people finding you but they're unclear on what you do, what you offer, and if it's for them because you're unclear on what you do, what you offer, and if it's for them. So it's hard for them to get clear on that.” But it's incredibly common.

Andrea Liebross: I would be the first to say that I keep getting clearer and clearer on it. This is an evolution process. You get better and better at it as time goes on. However, it's something that's really just essential to you growing. Like you said, it may not be a leads problem, it may be a messaging problem, it could be an offer problem, it could be all these things.

Stacey Harris: It could be a lot of problems. I think it always feels easiest to us. I say we because I'm as guilty of this as anybody to go, “Well, if I just had more eyeballs. If I just had more people seeing it. If there were just more people, this would work.” But if you can't convert 100 people, why do we think we're going to be able to convert if we have 1000 people there?

Andrea Liebross: Right. We don't need 1000 people actually, we just need 10 good ones or whatever it is.

Stacey Harris: Yeah, that's a lot of what I talk about on my show with download numbers and whatnot. This is a conversation I have a ton because it's like, “If I could just get more listeners,” and I'm like, “Cool, but how many people do you work with?” For example, we work at a pretty high level with our clients. We work with less than 10 people at a time and our clients tend to stay with us for a pretty long time.

I've got clients I've been working with 10 years so I don't actually need to attract more than four to eight people a year for the assortment of my offer. Most of those people end up in our mastermind, our small group program, or they end up in intensives with me because we only have so many production spots a year.

Like I said, our clients tend to stay so if I continued to focus on more and more and more and I just continue and continue and continue to get poor quality leads, not because they're bad people but because I have not set them up to identify that this is where they can get the solution that they need, I'm going to be putting myself through a ton of frustration, which is going to make the time where I do end up on somebody on a sales call that is a perfect fit lead, I am so frustrated and burned out I can't even see it.

It's so detrimental to our business but it's also wildly detrimental to get up and go as entrepreneurs. Our sales mojo as salespeople, which for a lot of us is the primary role in our business whether we want to believe it or not, we are salespeople first.

Andrea Liebross: Well, that's what I always say, when you own a business, you have two jobs. You have to deliver the service or product of the business and you also have the job of selling. The delivery and the sales. You are also a salesman no matter what. If someone's saying, “Well, I'm not good at sales so I'm going to invest in more marketing and if I have perfect marketing, then the marketing is going to do the selling for me,” now there is a grain of truth in everything, your marketing does have to do selling for you but you have to tell the marketing who and what to sell.

Actually, I would say that you can really only get good at answering that question “who to market to and what to market” by doing it yourself grassroots a little bit in the beginning.

You brought up Facebook ads. I, since May, have been doing some Facebook ads. I have grown my list, we’ll call it, tremendously with these Facebook ads. But I want to be honest with you, I don't think any of the people that I have now on my list as a result of a Facebook ad have bought one thing from me. I don't think any of them.

Actually, I'm having a conversation about that next week because I need to change something up there or not do it at all. I will also tell you that the vast, vast, vast majority of my new clients come from having listened to me on a podcast, on probably a guest podcast, and then they come listen to my podcast to see, “Let's listen to more of this person,” and then they set up a consult call.

That is what I found works best for me. I think part of it is because one of the great parts about podcast marketing is that it's long-form and that I can really share my message in more than 20 seconds. I think that's really good for me.

Here's something I learned, I had to say to you, “Hey, Stacey, these podcasts really are my best support systems for nurturing new clients and we have to think about that, what do they want to hear?

Marketing also, if people hear enough of you and you're selling something that they can figure out in a Facebook ad is right for them, then go for it. But you have to also figure out how do your people consume or what is going to grow their belief in you. A Facebook ad might be enough but it might not be.

Andrea Liebross: It also has to be in alignment with your offer. When we talk about investing with someone like me, we work with our clients on a 12-month initial contract in production. We are a pretty full-service strategy-focused agency. It's not a small investment, it is an investment. It takes time to see the payoff of that.

It also takes time for you to build trust enough to be like, “Yeah, I want to work with this person for a year.” Take the money out of it. I want to spend a year talking to this person. That is a big mental capacity and emotional investment. I have to deal with this person for a year. Do I want that?

I know a lot of coaches who are running 12-month programs. You need to make sure your clients are going to want to spend a year talking to you on the phone getting your feedback. That's going to take some time to build that trust. What I see a lot, specifically with Facebook ads and short-form marketing, even organic short-form marketing like Reels, TikTok, and things like that, we often expect the same turnaround as we do from a sales call for some reason.

They're going to just see this 30-second video or this 90-second video even, and be like, “Yes, let me pay this person $500, $1,000, $1,500, $2,000 a month, whatever it is, for a year and work with this person at a high level.” No, we have to get to know them. That's one of the things I like about podcasts.

For a lot of our clients, what we recommend with ads, who have a higher-end service, is instead of running ads to your offer, run ads to content, run ads to an opt-in, and then retarget those folks that are opting into podcast content because yeah, you're seeing that uptick in your list, you're seeing that interest, but now, it's the job of your email list and your podcast to nurture them to conversion.

Now we're talking about our marketing assets being able to also serve as sales assets. That's often where we see the gap when people are hiring any marketing expert is because they don't have a full understanding of what their offer is and how they sell people, they're going to have have a really hard time automating or systemizing that process and allowing their content, allowing their email, allowing those tools to support when they get that new lead from a podcast.

Even though they're going and they're dumping this money into the Facebook ads and they're getting these leads, they're not seeing that conversion because they've not done enough of the sales process stuff to be able to automate it.

I see this a ton with early business owners, I'm going to call them out right now, I think this happens at every stage, but especially in that first couple of years that fear of selling, that I don't want to be salesy so I'm just going to run Facebook ads and put them through my email list and never have to get on sales calls with people.

But how you know how to put in the emails, what you know you need to talk about in content comes from hearing the questions on sales calls, comes from that experience, frankly, maybe mostly, the bad one, the ones where you didn't get a yes, the ones that were not a fit, very obviously very early in the call were not a fit.

That's where we start to learn, “Cool, what do I need to make sure I have in my front-facing marketing materials to help them make a choice, to help them self-select? But also what do I have in any automations? What do I have in my content? What do I have sitting on my website that they're going to click around as they're getting to know me that support that process of them getting to know me, getting to know my expertise, and getting to understand the solution I offer, and why or why not it's right for them?”

That's what we're talking about when I talk about generating, educating, and converting with right-fit clients. From a generation perspective, we've got SEO we're optimizing on the front end for search discoverability, but also from that educate piece, that's the core of our long-form content. For you, the generate is going out and being on other people's podcasts so that we can drive them back to educate and convert.

Your show has to do that because it's real hard to educate and convert solely in a podcast that is someone else's as a guest. You've got to be thinking about that whole process, not just the lead and the convert but what's going to sit in the middle. That middle is often figured out mostly unfortunately by experience.

Andrea Liebross: It is. It’s trial and error.

Stacey Harris: Working with perfect clients, having sales calls with poor-fit and good-fit clients. A lot of it is just boots on the ground uncomfortable experience and we try to skip that by investing.

Andrea Liebross: Right. We almost skip that middle piece. If you think of it as a continuum, we're skipping the middle piece. We're just like, “What should I do?” I have a client and shout out to Kate, The Socialite, who does blogs. Her thing is blogs and newsletters for people in the home industries, interior designers, etc.

She and I have had a lot of conversations about how she customizes those for all of her clients but half the time, her clients don't know who she should be customizing it for. That's a real problem. They went ahead and they hired her and they think that's going to solve all their problems.

If this was going to be something that you were going to do on your own, it solves the time element. It's definitely solving the time element. But for it to solve the increase your business, increase revenue, increase number of people you're serving problem, it is not going to solve that unless you figure out this piece ahead of time.

Stacey Harris: Absolutely, and even with Kate's expertise, there may be some results just because--

Andrea Liebross: She showed it up in people's inboxes.

Stacey Harris: Right, well and you've handed it off to someone who simply has the capacity to actually do it. How many times are these things we're hiring out, things that aren't actually happening right now because they're sitting on a like, “Man, I wish I was doing to-do list instead of actually being done.”

You may see results just from the fact that you're doing it now, however, the results you're going to get are going to be less impactful, are going to be smaller, and also—and this is an entirely selfish point—but you make it really hard on the experts we hire and when we respect the people we hire, when we invest highly in the people we hire, and we enjoy the people we hire, we don't want to make their jobs harder. That's what we do when we come to it unprepared.

I say the same thing about hiring a VA before you have any idea what your systems and processes are. If everything is living in your brain, you're never going to get the results from a third party that you want to be getting. You have to be taking that time to acknowledge what's in your head and put it somewhere so that someone else can actually support you with it.

You're never going to get the support you want, you're never going to be able to hand off in the way you want to be handing things off, you're never going to be able to build the trust you want to be building with that person that you've hired to support you if you're not able to give them all of the information they need to get there.

To your point earlier, this evolves, this changes but nothing will evolve to more nothing. We don't do a lot of podcast launches because I want you to go do it really, really messy, for lack of a better way to put it, so that you can figure out if this is something you even want to do. I don't want to live through that experiment with you. It's not a good use of your money to go through that experiment with a producer like me.

Andrea Liebross: That's a good point because when I came to you, I was in, I remember you asking me, “How many episodes do you have?” and whatever I told you, and I remember your reaction was like, “Good.” Because you could tell that I had done it every week for 60 weeks so I must be doing something.

Stacey Harris: I want you to know that this is what you want to do before you do it because A, again, completely selfishly, maybe more transparent than I should be, I don't want to chase you down. I don't want to have to play schoolmarm, slap your hand with a ruler, and be like, “Could you please do what I asked?”

Andrea Liebross: You can do it, keep going. Recording a podcast every week is actually a huge--

Stacey Harris: It's a job.

Andrea Liebross: It's a job.

Stacey Harris: It's absolutely a job, creating any kind of content is but also, I want you to have proven to yourself that this is worth your time because we show up for it differently when we know that this is a good time investment. Again, let's set aside the money, granted, it's an important part of the conversation but it's also a colossal waste of our time to be shoveling into something that's not going to get any real payoff for us because we haven't made any decisions.

I love when clients go do, I say do at least 20 episodes messy, I like if you've done 50 because it means you've done a year of your show. If you've done this for a year messy, either DIYing with not a lot of editing or with somebody who's just doing your editing and show notes and maybe they're not supporting you with the strategy, I have clients who sit down with me for intensives who are DIYing their production still because they're still figuring out if they want to do this and we get together for an intensive, we do their strategy, and then they go and DIY their show, and they started with me last year, this year we're looking at production.

They needed to build the confidence that they could show up for this, that they knew how they wanted to present this info, and guess what, we were able to, at those intensives, start making some evolutions to their messaging, to how they presented their calls to action, to what their show notes were formatted like, or what kind of things they were talking about.

We took them lovingly out of jargon land doing a show for their colleagues instead of their potential clients and shifted them into talking more about what their clients need to know to make a decision. We were able to make those tweaks really early in their show so that they could see what it would feel like to do these shows in these different ways, but there was a lot of playing, a lot of evolving, a lot of teasing while they just figured it out on their own. They just started recording and playing with it.

But if they had jumped ahead and hired me for production and we'd sat down, we wouldn't have been able to do any of that because A, I wouldn't have had anything to audit and to assess and to say, “Here's where our holes are around understanding. I listened to three episodes of your show, I don't know who you're talking to or what you're talking about.”

Andrea Liebross: I use the science experiment analogy a lot and this is a great way to think about it. It's as if you had this hypothesis and you've jumped all the way to the conclusion, the synopsis, you had the hypothesis and the synopsis but you didn't do the experiment in the middle so there's no way to figure out what was really working or not working, you're just guessing on the synopsis and the conclusion.

I find it super valuable, I have coaches in all sorts of arenas I'll call it, but I find it really valuable every quarter when we sit down because you indirectly force me to really think about what's coming up, how I want to prepare for that, and how I want to be ready for that.

Actually, I've gotten even better in my social media over the last quarter thinking ahead about that, which is the same sort of thinking, but this is, in and of itself, a skill to be able to think about things that are just happening tomorrow. If you're someone that says, “Well, I don't even know what I'm going to be doing tomorrow or I don't even know who I'm going to be talking to tomorrow,” we have some work to do because if you're going to invest in any kind of marketing, you need to know who you're going to talk about three months from now or who you're talking to three months from now, what you're talking to them about.

Actually, I had a client who was also a podcast producer but she was just the producer part and she was very early on in her business. She was getting frustrated by the people that were coming to her asking for her to produce the podcast. But she hadn't really done yet this, I want to call it search and rescue but it's not search and rescue, it's like search and discover or search and find, the search and find part.

Then when I started asking her questions, “Who's the best client you have right now? Why do you love them so much? What do they do? What about them do you not like? What's their beef? Why are you doing what you're doing for them? What's the problem you're solving?” then she started to get a little more into figuring out how to better market herself.

Actually, it was funny because she's pretty good at marketing. She's really good at Reels. She's really good at audio and all that because that's what she's doing, but the messaging, I was like, “We gotta work on the messaging.” So even the expert in the actual production part of it still had to work on this stuff.

Stacey Harris: Honestly, my least favorite strategy to do is my own. It's still the thing that I have to go to the team and be like, “Guys, what does anyone talk about? What does any of this really mean?” It's hard to look at your own. That's the benefit of investing. I think the takeaway here is not to never invest early on but being really conscientious about who you're investing early on.

Andrea Liebross: Or investing with someone who's going to help you figure out that message. I think that's one of the things that I do. I don't want to do the podcast production. I want to do the other stuff.

Stacey Harris: Well, and that's why when I get people on sales calls and I ask them who they're talking to, what do you sell, then I'm like, “I have names for you. Let me just send you a list.” But one of the things I recommend early on is working with someone like you in an intensive, in a one-day setting where you can have a focus, and say, “I want to come in and this is my goal,” because you don't need to be investing necessarily in a 12-month relationship with somebody when you're still figuring out your messaging.

But that'll give you a small bite, it'll give you some stuff to test on so that you can test that for three months and then go, “Ooh, now I know what I want to adjust. Now I am willing to invest in 12 months with this person that helped me so that we can further flesh out our messaging, our marketing, our processes, our offers, what this is going to look like,” so that somewhere along the way in there, then I start investing in somebody who has been helping me with content because I'm starting to see how these things link together.

I'm putting these things together step by step. I built enough after our intensive that I have something to experiment with and to evolve as we work together over the 12 months instead of spending 12 months trying to help me make up a synopsis without ever doing the experiment.

Andrea Liebross: Right. That's what I do in those Vision to Action Intensives is we try to figure out, “Okay, what do you think this should look like? What's your vision? What would you love it to look like? Now how do we create some actions from it, which might be work on your messaging,” and then we go from there. That's exactly what I do in that.

It's really an opportunity to, number one, test out do you like working with that person but, number two, help you figure out what you need to focus on in order to achieve your goals, in order to make that happen. Hiring a podcast producer or someone who writes your blogs may or may not be in there or it may be in there if we're talking about creating a plan for 12 months, it may be like, “Okay, let's take the first two quarters of the year, figure out the messaging, and then let's revisit this third quarter, maybe you're ready to hire that person.”

Stacey Harris: Like I mentioned with the client earlier who last year did a handful of intensives with me. It was in our last intensive, they were like, “Cool, here's what we need to achieve for production to make sense. Here's where we're working towards for that kind of engagement to make sense for you.”

Because I don't want to put people in production where production is not a fit for them. That's not valuable to them. That's not a good use of my time. That's not a good use of my team's time. I want to be working with people who are ready for that, who are going to get and see the experience and results that they want from that container and that they should be getting from that container.

Sometimes that means that production right now is not the right offer. Sometimes it's somewhere along the way. Like I said, intensives are such a good way to go in and say, “This is what I need clarity on.” So if you're somebody who, as we've had this conversation, are going, “Ooh, actually, I'm not super clear on my messaging,” or, this is where I am a lot when I book intensives with people, “I don't know if I'm clear or not because I have thought about this for so long in so many angles.”

Andrea Liebross: You're getting in your own way.

Stacey Harris: But I'm like, “I just need literally someone else to tell me if any of the things I'm saying make sense at this point,” so I'll go and I'll book an intensive with my coach and I'll say, “I need you to listen to me just word vomit at you for 30 minutes and then you tell me if any of it was English and get that perspective.” That's great use for intensives. I'm sure you do that a lot in intensives when you're talking about messaging, “Oh, actually, you know a lot more than you think you know.”

Andrea Liebross: Right. It's incredible what comes out if you just have someone else asking you the questions. I find that a lot.

Stacey Harris: We’re really terrible at asking ourselves questions.

Andrea Liebross: We are, because a lot of what I do in intensives is ask you questions and then you get to sit there and try to answer them, realize you can't answer them, or realize the way you're answering is not what you've been telling yourself for the last six months. That's happened a lot. I just had a client who’s like, “I can't believe I just said that but that's really what I want to do.”

Stacey Harris: I love that.

Andrea Liebross: It gave her so much permission to go after it. But if she was asking herself the question, she was just staying where she was.

Stacey Harris: One of the things you mentioned earlier was the looking ahead. We often get so stuck in evaluating whether we're right or not that we're not looking ahead. One of the best pieces of feedback I get from clients is they shift from what's next week's episode to what's happening three or four months from now in my business over the course of working together.

As you know, a lot of what our quarterly calls are, are me going, “What do you think about what questions are people asking? What did they say on that call?” It's me just asking you questions.

Andrea Liebross: It is. Then all of a sudden, I'm like, “Oh, they don't know what their messaging is but they want to hire a podcast producer.” That's a good episode.

Stacey Harris: We should do that.

Andrea Liebross: We should do that. Well, I’m really glad we've done this today because this is I think super valuable for people to listen to, but valuable actually as you were talking, I was writing down some things I need to work on.

Stacey Harris: So really, this was a double whammy. To be fair, that's one of my favorite parts that we don't talk enough about, about being a podcast host that features guest experts is they are basically free consult calls. When I had an interview show with guest experts, I was like, “What are the things I want answered? What are the questions I have? Because if I have it, somebody else does”

Andrea Liebross: Ciara Stockeland was like, “We need to do another podcast together, really because when I talk to you, I learn a lot. That's why we're doing this.” She just said that.

Stacey Harris: I love that.

Andrea Liebross: It sounds like funny. She admitted it. She was honest, so thank you for being honest, Ciara.

Stacey Harris: Honesty, I like it.

Andrea Liebross: Yeah, she's like, “I got some questions for you that I want the answers to.”

Stacey Harris: If one person has them, other people have them. That’s good content, let's book it. Producer approved.

Andrea Liebross: Alright. If someone actually did want to book a consult or an intensive with you, where can they find you? They can always ask me but where can they find you on their own?

Stacey Harris: You can ask Andrea. Go to the link in the show notes because I promise, I'll put it there. No, everything is linked. Everything you could want is over at uncommonlymore.com. The podcast is there, which is a great place to start with. In the show notes of this episode, we'll actually link the episode you did on my show talking about the She Thinks Big Book launch and how we used the podcast in the book launch.

You know what, let's put that link in the show notes. That's a great thing to listen to after this because we're talking about today in a really focused way around the book, that's your homework, that's your assigned listening. Don't worry about any other links. I'll link in the show notes the Uncommonly More, The More Profitable Podcast episode with Andrea because I think that's a really good one to listen to after this.

Andrea Liebross: It is. It's like a case study.

Stacey Harris: It is. It is, which is the only guest I have on my show.

Andrea Liebross: They're the case studies. Okay, I like it. I like it.

Stacey Harris: I like it. Thanks for having me.

Andrea Liebross: You're welcome. This has been fun. It's always fun talking to you. I always laugh. We had some good giggles, some good giggles. Yes, we do, especially when Stacey's editing things and I'm like, “What do you think about this?” She's very diplomatic. She tells me, “I think you could do it better,” or “I think we should do it this way.”

Stacey Harris: I think we could do it shorter.

Andrea Liebross: Shorter, we could do it shorter. So, my friends, think about this, are you clear on your messaging? Do you know who your audience is? You always are in a state of evolving so I'm giving you permission to change it at any time but you do have to, in the moment, be able to answer the question as well.

If that's something that you don't know the answer to yet, I would be happy to help you figure that out. If we have figured that out, then let's figure out what marketing tools are best for you, where is a good place to invest your money, with who, are you ready for a podcast, if we're talking podcast, and all the things.

Thank you, Stacey, for being here. Check out those show notes and until next time, remember my friends, this is the time to level up this right now. I always say this but it's true, I'm looking out the window as it's snowing and it's still a good time even when it's snowing outside my window to up your game, give yourself an upgrade. Let's do this. See you next week.

Hey, listening to podcasts is great. But you also have to do something to kick your business up a notch. You need to take some action, right? So go to andreaslinks.com and take the quiz. I guarantee you'll walk away knowing exactly what your next best step is to level up.