219: How Your Goals & Support Needs Evolve with Your Business with Whitney Vredenburgh

Andrea Liebross: Welcome to the She Thinks Big! Podcast. Get ready to level up your thinking and expand your horizons. I’m your host, Andrea Liebross, your guide on this journey of big ideas and bold moves. I am the best-selling author of She Thinks Big: The Entrepreneurial Woman's Guide to Moving Past the Messy Middle and Into the Extraordinary.

I support women like you with the insights and mindset you need to think bigger and the strategies and systems you need to turn that thinking into action and make it all a reality. Are you ready to stop thinking small and start thinking big? Let’s dive in.

Hello, my friends, and welcome back to the She Thinks Big Podcast. Today, I'm excited because I have with me one of my longtime clients here, Whitney. Whitney's been on the podcast before. We are going to have to go figure out what episode that was. But it seems like that was a very, very long time ago.

I asked her if she would be willing to back on because I want to talk today about how our businesses evolve and our goals shift over time as our businesses grow and how we need support along the way and those needs even evolve and change and grow, and well, I wouldn't say they grow but they change as we go through the stages of our business.

I think as we dig into Whitney's journey, you're going to see some of the real challenges of scaling a business because really hitting a revenue milestone doesn't magically make things easy. Would you agree, Whitney?

Whitney Vredenburgh: Yeah. I think we talk a lot about goals and getting to a certain point and we have this idea that once we get to a goal, it's going to be totally smooth sailing, clear skies, slight breeze, and that's just not the reality, and that's okay.

Andrea Liebross: That's okay, and that's okay. All right, before we go any further, I want you to introduce yourself to our listeners who might be driving to Target, dropping their kid off at school. I always like to think about where people are listening.

Whitney Vredenburgh: Yeah, I'm a big fan of Target Drive Up actually. That's such a great thing.

Andrea Liebross: It's a game changer. It's a game changer, the Target Drive Up.

Whitney Vredenburgh: It is, yeah. Hi guys, I am Whitney Vredenburgh and Andrea and I have been working together for a few years now. I own Nested Spaces. We are a home staging and design business based in Indianapolis, and we love all things home.

Andrea Liebross: Whitney does a great job at both staging and design, which is, we can talk a little bit about that. But I also tell them what has happened, who lives in your house, because I think this is important.

Whitney Vredenburgh: We have a one-and-a-half-year-old puppy, two cats, all my doing, all my own doing, four kids, they're 12, 11, and then seven-year-old twins. Then I have a husband. It's six humans.

Andrea Liebross: Six humans, three non-humans, a nanny after school most days.

Whitney Vredenburgh: Yep, an after-school helper that helps with spelling tests, laundry, picking up the dog.

Andrea Liebross: The dog, the dog's the easiest.

Whitney Vredenburgh: I think she likes the dog the best.

Andrea Liebross: Yep, yep. Yeah. All right, so I want to start by highlighting or reading to you a little bit from this Chapter 11 of She Thinks Big because this I think is the crux or helps us get a vision or a visual of what's happening. There's even a graphic in Chapter 11 that I call The Expanding Spiral of Evolution. I say in there, and I'm just going to read this, “As we noted in chapter nine, our expectation of things are going to be better when leads to more stress. ‘When X happens, everything will get better’ isn't a realistic expectation. Neither is X will never happen after I get to this. When you get to a certain point in your plan, everything is falling into place in one way, but it's only going to get challenging in another way because your brain will find a new challenge rooted in your present success. That is how your brain works.”

It goes on to say, “And successful businesswomen realize they're never actually going to be finished. There's always another set of challenges that come from solving the ones they're working on now. And that's okay. Even if challenges don't arise in their current businesses, their next set of dreams and ambitions will create new ones.”

Okay, so if you haven't gotten your hands on a copy of the book, go read page 196 because that is where I pulled that from. I think it's pretty accurate if we think about your business, Whitney. I want to rewind to 2021, I think when we first met each other, what was going on in your business when you first reached out to me?

Whitney Vredenburgh: Well, we were on the tails of COVID, like all the COVID stuff, the kids were either getting ready to go back to school or--

Andrea Liebross: Yes, some hybrid version maybe.

Whitney Vredenburgh: Yes, and my kids were nine, eight, and then my twins were four at the time. I think when we met, my twins were in the same room. They're still in the same room. But at the time we had a bedroom with two cribs in it, our two toddler beds, and they had learned how to escape from the crib during nap time, and they would escape together and they pulled a dresser over.

I don't need anybody to tell me I'm a bad parent. I already have thoughts around all that, but the point is that it was a chaotic time and we were trying to come to grips with post-COVID business and what that looked like and then managing kids that were in and out of school and my husband was not furloughed but he's in the dental world. During that time he was not traveling as much and things had changed for him as well. It was an interesting time.

Andrea Liebross: Yes, it was an interesting time.

Whitney Vredenburgh: I think business at that time, the real estate business in Indy was deemed as a critical business. I was working through COVID and into that next year as a critical business. That was part of the growth of the business is that we continued to stage homes during that time. It was quite the interesting season.

Andrea Liebross: It was. What do you think you were hoping coaching would help you with at that point? Because I'm trying to think back, did you have any help at that point besides like a stage or helper?

Whitney Vredenburgh: We had a couple like lead in assistant stages at the time that we're working ad hoc for us and we were in our 3,600-square-foot warehouse. We were settled in there, but it was definitely a different time and I think I was trying to figure out what does normal look like, how can things feel chaotic post-COVID, and even just with the ages of my kids, how can I find some, I guess comfort or where I don't feel so much pressure?

The truth is, while that's good, that you want peace and ease, that's not necessarily how a business thrives or how your life thrives if you are constantly feeling at ease. It's good at times to feel a little pressure because that's going to help you either act, make a decision and act on it and that pressure is not going to keep you stuck doing what you're currently doing.

Andrea Liebross: Ooh, that's interesting. Okay, so the pressure does not, even though you want it to go away, it can be a good thing because it forces you to probably make different decisions to change or grow.

Whitney Vredenburgh: A lot of times we feel discomfort, pressure, because it's our higher level thinking telling us, we need to do something different or we need to take an action maybe where there's been an inaction.

Andrea Liebross: Yep, yep. All right, so you mentioned to me before that you thought decisions would get easier once you hit a certain revenue. When did you realize that that really wasn't exactly true?

Whitney Vredenburgh: Oh, probably a few years ago. The business is almost 10 years old. There have been a lot of different iterations of the business, because I started the business before I had twins, not obviously seeing the future so there have been a lot of different goals and iterations.

Andrea Liebross: What were some of the biggest surprises about what growth actually looked like? Did things get easier when you hit a certain revenue goal?

Whitney Vredenburgh: Yeah. So, In terms of growth, I don't think you're ever totally prepared when you get a flood of requests or projects coming in. I think it's important to be able to say yes to the right ones and no to the right ones or even we have an opening instead of we have a waitlist. I think that's an important piece. The other piece is you're never really prepared or equipped for growth. A lot of it as a small business owner and entrepreneur is figuring it out on the job at that moment.

Andrea Liebross: Yeah. Okay. I think those are two really good things. Number one, you can't really be prepared. I think that's like a myth. Don't you think? I want to be prepared for when whatever happens. I mean, yes, there's a baseline level of preparedness, but having the ability, the skill, the decision-making capacity to make decisions as things happen sometimes is surprising to new entrepreneurs. They don't realize that they're going to have to do that. They think they're going to be all prepared for whatever, and it doesn't necessarily look like that.

Whitney Vredenburgh: Especially women, I think we want a road map that says, "There's going to be a fork in the road here. Take a slight left." I think men are more confident in a lot of ways, not that women can't be, and they will take a challenge and run with it, and they will not say, "I don't feel prepared." They will figure it out. A lot of what I have tried to do when I have that thought, “I don't feel prepared,” because it happens, it's happened almost in every season, I have to rethink about it and say, “I will figure this out. I am capable and confident. I might not have the answer right now. But let's go on a walk. Let's step away and the answer will come.”

Andrea Liebross: It will. Okay, I think that's a huge point. I think the other thing you said right before that, if we zoomed back is you figured out, you realized that you got to a point where you had to say no to certain things. We don't really believe that's ever going to happen, we believe we're always going to be saying yes to every opportunity because when we start, we probably are saying yes to every opportunity. But you do get to this place where you have to be more discerning and say no.

Whitney Vredenburgh: Yeah. Our line of business is like we work in people's homes. We're coming into somebody's personal space, and ultimately, I don't want to compromise the aesthetic of the brand, the quality, the experience. So a couple of things. If I don't feel like we have the staffing or the resources that we need to successfully execute a project, I don't want to say, “Yes, we can do it next week.” I want to say, “How about in two weeks or three weeks?” That gives me a buffer to figure it out.

The other piece of this is if you are doing an introductory call or if you meet with somebody and you feel like they are not a good fit, that you may not be compatible because everyone is not going to like you, that was hard for me to get that feedback in real-time or even after the fact, but if you get that sense that this client may not be on the same page as you, not be aligned, may be challenging to work with, it is better to say no than to tough it out because then both of you are leaving with expectations unmet. I've had to learn that the hard way a few times.

Andrea Liebross: I have another client who her business is probably in the beginning stages and she had this in her head that she was going to do these meet and greets with new prospective clients and she's been doing them. Her meet and greet, she envisioned these being her trying to sell her business to the person on the other side of the table. Like, “Here's how our business works, come work with us.”

Well, now she's gotten to a point where, she's calling it, she's having trainwrecks on the other side of the table. She is realizing that she doesn't want to work with these trainwrecks. I said, “So you need to start treating these meet and greets, you're interviewing them just as much as they're interviewing you. You can say no. You do not have to say yes,” which I think goes against the assumption that growth is going to be linear, that the line's always going to be going up and to the right.

What she's realizing is that the growth may have a little plateau because she's saying no to certain things, but then it might go up again. Yeah, that was a thing that happened this week that I was like, “Ding, ding, ding.”

Whitney Vredenburgh: Yeah, it's almost like you're dating a little bit either potential employees or potential clients. It is better if you really want to say yes, because you want the job and you're thinking, “This is going to help me reach my goal.” But be wary of those opportunities, especially when you're getting those warning signs.

Andrea Liebross: Yes, the red flags. Pay attention to the red flags.

Whitney Vredenburgh: Yeah, and a lot of times I think we want to push through those because we're excited about the additional project or whatnot, but those are there for a reason.

Andrea Liebross: Yes, and I think you made a good point too. This is with potential clients, but also employees. Anyone you're hiring, the same sort of thing. It's like you're interviewing them, they're interviewing you. It's a two-way street.

Whitney Vredenburgh: I think that's why it's important for entrepreneurs, small business owners to make sure they are taking a break. Because for a lot of years, and sometimes still, I'll get into a season where it's like work, home, sleep, home, work and it's a cycle where I feel like I'm just grinding through something. This actually happened to me in December. We were trying to close early for the holidays so we were trying to put everything into the certain window.

Looking back, I would have handled it differently because I didn't have time. I was excited about the projects and about them moving forward and how it could help the business. Instead of thinking about, “Does the team have the capacity and the margin? Do I have the capacity and margin to jump in?” And the answer really was no, but we pushed through. I wish I would have taken time each day to think about, “What does this look like for the next week? What does this look like for the next month? Does this make sense for us? Can we still deliver and all remain committed to the vision?”

Andrea Liebross: 100%. That's actually a good little segue into the power of structure or creating your ideal week. This is something that I know you've dove deep into in the past few months; the value of creating this ideal week, even before knowing exactly how it's all going to happen, why has this been such a game changer for you in creating this ideal week? Or at least being cognizant of the fact that it's out there?

Whitney Vredenburgh: Well, a lot of times when you have young kids, there are so many variables. It can be really frustrating if you have goals and you're type A, and you think certain things are going to happen, and then somebody gets a norovirus or somebody has to travel, your husband has to travel unexpectedly. Those are examples obviously from my own personal life.

But the ideal week, I think, is important even if things do not go as planned because it gives you a roadmap and a structure for what you want things to look like. You don't have to implement it all at once. You can slowly implement things because also what I've realized is really small changes make a big impact and they give you momentum to take more action in the area that you're seeing results in.

Andrea Liebross: Yes, yes. So. Let's go back. Let's rewind to that 2021 timeframe. What do you think your biggest challenge with time management was early on and have you changed your approach to structuring your week over the last few years? What do you think?

Whitney Vredenburgh: There are things I would have done differently if I could go back to 2021.

Andrea Liebross: Yeah, like what? Tell us, what do you think?

Whitney Vredenburgh: I would make sure that I had afternoon help with the kids.

Andrea Liebross: Oh yeah, look at that.

Whitney Vredenburgh: So that I could shut down the day, the work day, and not feel rushed into meal prep, activities, being a mom. Also, planning the week ahead. Like what does the week look like, truly? For my working time and then for family time, now, I write everything down and I have a binder for myself and our sitter and she writes notes about the kids, but she also has the schedule for the week. That has been helpful.

It does take work, but it's helpful to not be like, "Oh my gosh, we have that that day." I mean, sometimes those things pop up, but it's a lot less frequent. I also layer in my husband's travel schedule. Everyone's aware of what's happening. That's been very helpful.

Andrea Liebross: I think early on, you, we look at things in pieces, like, “Okay, this is what I have going on for work. This is what I have going on for the kids. This is what I have personally--” but we don't layer them on top of each other. I think you've gotten really good at layering things on top of each other and seeing it as one big picture, not as just separate silos.

Whitney Vredenburgh: Yeah, and the truth is once you layer it all on, you can ask yourself, “Do I really have time for X, Y, and Z? Does this even make sense? Am I going to show up well to this, or am I going to show up a little bit frazzled?” And then at that point, you either delegate whatever you're going to be at, if that's possible, or you ask for more help at home.

The other thing, I think, is when you start implementing these things, you're not going to always get it right. I think a lot of times, if we put the effort in, we think it's going to be perfect. That's just not realistic.

Andrea Liebross: No, I think we've had a lot of discussion on that. You go down one path with support, like, “Let's talk about hiring people in your business.” It feels like, “We're finally getting things together.” Then for whatever reason, like right, wrong, or it doesn't matter what the reason is, it doesn't work out in the end. Then you've got to pivot and have a different person. It looks different in different stages.

Whitney Vredenburgh: I think if you feel overwhelmed by your current schedule and you are hiring somebody to save you or to take things off your back or off your plate, instead of throwing plates at someone, because things felt like on fire at times, like at my house and in my business, just being really honest here and I wish I would have thought through “What do I really need this person to do right now? And can I serve them the plate with clear objectives instead of just being like, ‘Oh, I'm drowning. I need your help’?”

Because if you come at it from a place of scarcity, which is what I was doing, your outcome won't be as good. If you come from it from a place of abundance, like, “Things are going really well. I love your help in this area,” the way that you present that can really make huge dividends.

Andrea Liebross: Yeah, and I think this goes to when you're handing something off to someone, are you telling them what a home run would look like for you? Are you giving them a clear picture of what would make you feel great about them handling this or what you want the end result to look like? Why you're handing it off, how you want them to do it. All these pieces of, these are all elements of delegating in a sense, because you were just tossing the plates and saying, “Run with it. Just do it, just do it.” Then, in the end, the plates broke, if we want to use an analogy. They broke, you didn't like them. All right, can we talk for one second about the binder?

Whitney Vredenburgh: So this was actually Andrea's idea. At the end of last year, we're at the end of February currently so mid-December, I could tell we needed more structure in the afternoons at my house and I did not know what that looked like. I mean, that's never been modeled to me and there was really no framework. Andrea and I were Voxering and she's like, "What if you did a binder and you printed off the date and any notes that could be made about the kids or whatever?”

My youngest is very spirited and our afternoon sitter is great, and she used to be a teacher at home school, so she wanted the kids to sit down and do these things, and my son ran and did all kinds of fun things, hid in the bathroom, et cetera, et cetera. This binder has been a great way for her to write things down, but I also had to have a conversation with my son—my twins are opposite so the little girl is a much better listener than the little boy just generally—about like listening, “If you can do this for 10 to 15 minutes, then you have the rest of the day to play. We really want you to listen to so and so. She's in charge when we're not here.”

So now we've gotten into a much better routine. We also have the afternoon schedule in there. I print off their spelling list and anything that's going on at school. That's the binder. It gets updated every Saturday or Sunday.

Andrea Liebross: The binder really is like a communication tool.

Whitney Vredenburgh: Yes.

Andrea Liebross: Right. Whitney was feeling like she had to number one, tell the afternoon help so many things. It was just like a constant plethora of, “And then this is happening, and then this person needs this.” It was like too much. Then on the flip side—and this is something that I totally remembered and could relate to—when she would get home after a long day and everybody's sitting at the island, the sitter wanted to report, rightly so, as to what had happened during that last couple of hours. Whitney was exhausted at that point and honestly didn't have necessarily the bandwidth to listen to it all even though you wanted to know as a mom.

Whitney Vredenburgh: I was listening but I was like, “What did she just say?” I just got in and I'm thinking about whatever is happening next and so this was a nice way for it to be written down so I could refer back to it, because there were a lot of words and I was just like, "What is this?"

Andrea Liebross: Right. You want to know, it's not that you don't want to know. But you didn't have the bandwidth to listen intently to it all as you were walking through the garage door. So, we created this binder as a way to honestly, if we go back to your ideal week, as a way to make each day a little easier.

Whitney Vredenburgh: It’s more digestible because then I can look back and if my younger son didn't listen, I have a record of what happened and I can talk to him at dinner. I can talk to him before bed. I can talk to him before school, not in a scolding way, but, “Hey the sitter is here to help us and she wants what's best for you. You really need to listen to her. If you listen to her, here's what can happen.” That was just a really big shift I saw.

Andrea Liebross: Yeah, huge.

Whitney Vredenburgh: And the sitter felt heard.

Andrea Liebross: Yeah, the sitter liked it, right?

Whitney Vredenburgh: Yeah, like, what's happening? Yeah.

Andrea Liebross: This can be translated into business too. I mean, this would give you something like this in business. But what's interesting here is that in 2021, we probably couldn't have even imagined that Whitney and I would be having this conversation. We were just worried about people sleeping and Whitney getting a good night's sleep.

Whitney Vredenburgh: I had a sleep coach right after you and I talked. I was like, “I do need somebody to help me with that.”

Andrea Liebross: I think you need a sleep coach. Anyway, that was like 2021. Now we're talking about how to best communicate with a sitter and make the afternoons after school flow better. This is her personal life, too, in its next iteration or its evolution. It's not like, “Hey, when everybody goes to school or when I get an after-school sitter, everything's going to be amazing.” There's a new set of challenges.

Whitney Vredenburgh: Yes, definitely. If you think about the binder as like an SOP, your employee may have this binder, but the binder in and of itself, you need feedback from each other too. Yeah, the binder could be a metaphor for a lot of different things.

Andrea Liebross: Totally could be, totally could be. All right, let's totally shift gears here for a second. Let's talk about mastering business finances. Okay, this is a totally different thing, but this has been a big thing for you too. I can recall one of my original memories here of us working together was that you had this desire to want to know your numbers even though it felt scary. You had a desire to understand things in a different way with a business owner hat on, but you really didn't know where to start and you had no support around it.

Now we're in a totally different place where you just have a totally different relationship with business finances. You said to me that understanding business finances is the single most important thing that a business owner can do. Why do you think that's true?

Whitney Vredenburgh: And it doesn't matter how much you're making. It doesn't matter the size of your business because knowing your numbers, if you pull a profit and loss statement, knowing your numbers and where you're at month to month, year to year, quarter to quarter is so important because you can see what categories are bringing you the most revenue, what clients are bringing the most income. So you can be more strategic about your marketing dollars or where your team is spending their time, how your team is talking and relating to certain clients.

Then it's a domino effect. Once you know those important pieces of information, then you can make other decisions that make sense. For example, my lease, the five-year lease is coming due at the end of December, and I am really looking at this year to see where we are at to figure out what I want to do for next year. I have to make those decisions in a few months to prepare.

Numbers are important, I think, for creatives. Numbers feel daunting prior to owning this business. I had a role in marketing and communications. I did sales as well. I mean, numbers are important, but it's a different lens when you're working in corporate America versus owning your own business. Even digging into QuickBooks and reconciling that, I was like, "What is that? What are we doing?" It almost felt to me like when you take a test and you're looking at your grades, but really, numbers are neutral.

Andrea Liebross: Oh, look at that nugget of information.

Whitney Vredenburgh: They're not good or bad. They are neutral. It's what you do with that information that matters.

Andrea Liebross: Yeah. Would you say that way back in the day, you did feel like numbers were neutral thing?

Whitney Vredenburgh: No, and still I have to remind myself of this all the time because I was surprised in January of this year by some numbers because I had data from December that actually, in terms of projections, didn't match January. I also think that's why it's important to look at your numbers because things may change from month to month or quarter to quarter.

Andrea Liebross: Yes, a hundred percent. What kind of support have you put around understanding your numbers? Because when we first started working, there was zero, I would say.

Whitney Vredenburgh: Yeah, it was a lot of looking at the checking account as a barometer, which I mean, is important, but that's pretty basic. I have a new CPA, a new accountant, and we meet every month. Then as part of coaching, we do YNAB. Both of those things take time to implement, they don't happen overnight, but those are really important things, I would say for any small business owner.

Andrea Liebross: Yep, so even that, what that looked like support-wise has evolved over time. Whitney's gotten great at understanding these numbers. However, you still have to interpret them given the current climate of your business, given where you want to go. The numbers are neutral so the 100, if that was on the piece of paper, meant something different a year ago than it does now and you have to look at it as a big hole.

Whitney Vredenburgh: And I think I attached a lot of meaning to certain numbers instead of taking them at face value and then making a decision based on those numbers. I had a lot of ego involved. I mean, I still catch myself doing this. But we realized just an example, even if we are doing 10 stages or 10 design projects, they need to have a certain amount of profitability for it to even make sense for us to do those.

If someone is haggling with us for price or they want a discount on monthly services, you name it in your business, is it really worth it? Is it profitable? To keep the business viable, you have to be profitable. For us, staging has a high overhead with movers and stagers and furniture and warehouse. So, particularly in that sleeve of business, we have to be really conscious of what does profitability look like.

There are a lot of ways to come to a number, but doing a project for the sake of doing a project and somebody wanting you, you being flattered that somebody asked you really doesn't matter. What matters is running the numbers and making sure there is a net profit for every project you're doing.

Andrea Liebross: Yeah, so this has really been a shift for you because something that you might have said yes to two years ago might get a hard no now. It's not profitable. I also think this is something too that we've explored in terms of your team or your employees. They don't necessarily get this.

Whitney Vredenburgh: They are there to work, to help you execute on a project. They may not understand your profit and loss or your balance sheet or your fixed cost or your variable cost, so, really, the numbers should live and die with the owner of the business unless you are hiring like a CFO, unless you're at that level of your business, because there's that saying, "The buck stops here," or whatever, and that really is true, and I learned that this year that really I need to have visibility and be making all decisions for the business based on the finances that I am seeing and I am interpreting.

Andrea Liebross: Yep. That's so important. Thanks for sharing that. All right. As we wrap this up, looking back at your journey, what kind of support have you needed at different stages of business growth? If you think about it, how has your support shifted? Who or what has supported you along the way? What advice would you give to business owners who think they should be able to figure things out alone? Thinking about different stages of business, I'm curious how you see that and what's helped.

Whitney Vredenburgh: Well, coaching has been hugely helpful. That's why I've been doing it since 2021. The combination of the group coaching plus the YNAB coach and then the Full Focus coach have been extremely helpful. I would say also having other women business owners that you can reach out to or connect with that are safe people, they're not necessarily, I mean, maybe they're your competition, but maybe they're trusted people.

For me, like inside the coaching group, there are a group of women and one of them is a designer, a couple of them are designers, and we have a separate Voxer chat. That's been really, really, really helpful. I would say the support of your family too. They may not always understand why you're doing what you're doing, but having their support I think is important too.

Andrea Liebross: Yeah, so when Whitney and I started working together, I didn't even have a mastermind. I didn't even have this thing I call Runway to Freedom Mastermind. But what she's referring to is in there, we've got a group of people that are like safe. They don't live next door to you necessarily. You can really be honest and open with them. Then as part of that Runway to Freedom Mastermind too, we have individual one-on-one coaching with You Need A Budget (YNAB). We've got individual one-on-one coaching with this Full Focus ideal week type of thinking. They've got Voxer access to the group and to me.

It's like this big combination of things. It's not one thing I don't think. I mean, you tell me if I'm wrong. I think it's the conglomerate of all of them that make it a lot easier to navigate this business thing because you're right, your family supports is supportive, but they don't necessarily get it. My family doesn't get it. Yeah.

Whitney Vredenburgh: Yeah. I mean, I think the other piece is your team, having a team that is supportive. When things go wrong or when they go right, I mean, we're all working together to either solve a problem or to celebrate with each other. I feel the same way about coaching too, because sometimes you'll ask us, “What went really well this week?” It's a nice reminder that there are some really bright spots and we got to remember those.

Andrea Liebross: Yeah, I sometimes ask in a call, “What can we celebrate? What went well? What was a win?” And no one's really asking us that on an individual basis, like on a daily basis, no one's walking around your kitchen saying, “What was a win today in your business?” So, I think inside our coaching group, when we do that, it's special.

Also, I think going back to the team thing, a lot of what we're doing in coaching is helping each other navigate team dynamics and figuring out what does work for other people as they manage, create, or pull apart their team at different stages of business.

If someone listening is at a, I'll call it a pivot point in their business, wondering what their next step should be, what would you tell them? How would you figure that out?

Whitney Vredenburgh: Oh, I would encourage them to honestly do some journaling.

Andrea Liebross: Yes, you've gotten good at that.

Whitney Vredenburgh: To write down things that are going well, things that are not going well, I would encourage them to think about their ideal week. If they're at a pivot point, it's scary because it's unknown, but it's a great time to reevaluate where you're at and then make decisions based on what you're feeling is right. We should always make decisions based on how we're feeling, but I think it's a combination of looking at numbers, looking at our vision to action organizer, and then what do I want things to look like? Truly what makes sense for me in this season?

Because I also think as women, we can feel like the newborn stage goes on forever, and it does not in your business or in your family. As our seasons shift, we will be able to explore new chapters and things. I don't think any decision we make is ever the end all be all. There's always going to be maybe a part two or a season two or a season three.

Andrea Liebross: Yes. It's like what's right in the moment, but also is that still right and does it align with where you want to go? It's like a combo of what feels right right now, but hey, check-in, does this align with where I want to go too?

Whitney Vredenburgh: And with your values too, because I think a lot of women are really driven by their values. They want it to be a certain combination of things. I do think that that's possible. I mean, I think about a lot of the women that are in the coaching group, or that we know locally that are small business owners, and there are so many different types of businesses. A lot of women are so creative, they make the business work for them, not the other way around.

Andrea Liebross: Yes, you can make the business work for them, work for yourself. Whether you're in the newborn stage or in the teenage stage, it evolves. Also, you said make a decision based on how you feel, I think that's true because feelings trigger our actions or inactions or reactions. But how you feel is triggered by what you're thinking. I think it's, yes, ultimately your actions are based on how you're feeling, but you get to choose how you want to feel too, based on what you want to think.

Whitney Vredenburgh: You do, you do.

Andrea Liebross: All right, anything else that you want to share that you think we need to know? This has been such a good discussion.

Whitney Vredenburgh: No, I think this was great. I think this was great.

Andrea Liebross: Thank you for being honest and open, and I feel honored to have been on this journey with you, seeing all the stages and what's to come. I'm excited about what's happening. We didn't really get into it, but Whitney's business is going to be the same, but she's evolving as a CEO and business owner as we move through it so I'm excited to see what's ahead.

Okay, listeners, I hope you have gotten through the Target Drive Up pickup line and you've gotten out of your parking spot and they have come along and scanned your phone to make sure that you've picked up the right item and now you're heading home. But if you're thinking, or if you've ever thought, “Once I hit this milestone or once XYZ happens, then everything will fall into place,” this episode is really proof that business is always evolving. We're always moving through the different stages, just as your kids grow, your business grows.

It's not to say that teenage years are easier than newborn years, they both have their challenges. So you need the right support to evolve with it. Don't be shy about surrounding yourself with that support. If you want to talk about this, if you're ready to explore what coaching support, which is just one form, would look like, let's talk. Go head over to andreaslinks.com and you're going to find the link to book a call. Thank you, Whitney.

Whitney Vredenburgh: Thank you for having me.

Andrea Liebross: Check out all of Whitney's links in our show notes. Look at all the amazing projects she is working on. She's done some really good stuff on Instagram too. Go follow Nested Spaces if I do say so myself. We will see everybody next week. Have a great week.

Thanks for tuning into the She Thinks Big! Podcast. If you're ready to learn the secret to unleashing your full potential, don't forget to grab a copy of my book, She Thinks Big: The Entrepreneurial Woman's Guide to Moving Past the Messy Middle and Into the Extraordinary. It's available on Amazon and at your favorite bookstore.

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